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About 20 August 1945, when Hirako talked to Tanaka outside Tanaka's office, Hirako said, "If the PW dies, I want you to cut out some part of the body to be used for practice purposes in histology classes. I also have some things which As to Tanaka's conversation with Makino following that with Hirako, in which Tanaka told him all the conversation, Makino said, "Yes, let's do that. You will help, won't you? I would like to take some of the specimens to Yonago with me when I leave." When Tanaka talked to Ishizawa, he said, "Since Dr. Hirako has ordered it, in the event that the Prisoner should die I am going to take out some parts of the body for practice purposes in histology classes." Ishizawa answered, "Is that so?" Following the first operation, after visiting his wife, went to the Autopsy Training Room about 1730, saw that the Prisoner was dead, returned to his office, told Makino that Prisoner was dead, and he said, "Then let's start to work," brought a bottle of formaldehyde. Tanaka made a bottle of Zenker solution and brought it along. When Makino and Tanaka got to the Autopsy Training Room, Goshima and Ryu were there. Makino, Goshima and Tanaka took the essential parts out of the Prisoner's dead body. Tanaka took parts from the abdomen, including the intestine, stomach, liver, bladder, kidney, and Supra renal gland. Makino took parts out of the chest, including the lung and heart. These parts easily recognized were not tagged, those difficult were tagged; all were put in the bottle of formaldehyde. From the pieces of liver and Supra renal gland that Tanaka had taken, he cut off small pieces and put them in the Zenker solution. Goshima took something from the area of the Prisoner's wrist . Ryu said he would like to take out the Prisoner's brain and even before they had finished their work Ryu began to inject Meuller solution into the large blood vessel in the Prisoner's neck. Since the injection of Meuller solution ruined the rest of the body for their purposes, Makino and Tanaka stopped their work when Ryu began to inject the solution. Makino and Tanaka returned to their offices leaving Goshima and Ryu to take out the brain. During the 10-15 minutes that it took them to get those parts, no one else entered the room. It now occurs to Tanaka that one of the doctors of the Surgery Clinic said at the first operation, "This Prisoner is 23 years old." Whenever an operation was being conducted on a PW, Hirako posted on the door of the Autopsy Training Room nearer to the offices a sign to the effect that no one was to pass through that room. When Tanaka entered the room (the 2nd time?) at 1600 Ishiyama was doing a liver operation, but at the far right hand corner Tanaka saw another table parallel with the length of the room, and there were 5-6 people around it doing something to another body. Tanaka didn't watch this one, but watched Ishiyama and Komori operate on the liver. After 10 minutes Tanaka left the room, went to the next Autopsy Training room near the offices, met Makino, who said, "Let us take out those parts of the bodies which we were unable to get last time." Tanaka went to his office, put the necessary liquids in bottles, then placed them and a graduate in a wooden bucket, told Aiko Fukuzuki, a lab assistant, to take them to the room where he had seen Makino, instructed her to put the bucket on one of the tables in that room. Tanaka then went to that room, whereupon Makino said, "The operation over here is finished so let's start to work. Makino indicated that the operation on the far right of the Autopsy Training Room was over. Makino then went into that room carrying a bottle of formaldehyde. Tanaka stayed in the outer room to prepare a Zenker and Bouin Solution, which must be prepared immediately prior to use. Tanaka carried these solutions in 2 small bottles into the operating room. In the operating room Ishiyama was still working on the liver operation. At the 2nd far right hand corner dissecting table, stood Makino with the PW on the table lying on his back with his feet in the direction of the hall way door. Makino and Tanaka worked together, taking parts out of the Prisoner's head. The Prisoner had been operated on on the region of the stomach and the incision had been made from below the ribs in the middle of the abdomen down to the region of the navel; the incision had not been sewed up. The Prisoner was a short man, thin, and quite dark in complexion, had dark hair, appeared to be of Southern European origin, perhaps Italian or Spanish. Parts Tanaka remembers taking were the saliva glands, thyroid gland, testicles-- the latter appearing to be diseased in some way-- when cutting them out a yellow fluid came out. Tanaka gave the saliva glands and the thyroid gland to Makino, which he tagged and put in his formaldehyde solution. Before giving the above parts to Makino, Tanaka cut off small pieces for himself and put them in Zenker solution, which he prepared, also put a small piece of the testicles in the Bouin Solution. He gave the remainder of the testicles to Makino, who himself took several parts of the head of the Prisoner. 3-4 persons came in from the Surgery Clinic to watch, including Hirao and Mori, then left. The body which was on the other table and had been undergoing a liver operation had been moved off the table it had been on, and, Tanaka believes, been placed on a table which was standing parallel and to the right of the table on which the liver operation had been conducted. Just as they finished 7-8 soldiers brought in a PW on a stretcher and placed him on the table where the liver operation had taken place. Tanaka doesn't know whether he was unconscious, saw him make no movement. Komori then informed the soldiers that they could leave. Makino and Tanaka left the room with their specimens before the operation started. While they washed their hands in Makino' s office, Tanaka asked him if they had enough specimens with the ones they had taken out, and Makino replied that he didn't think it would be necessary to obtain any more. Makino did take parts out by himself without assistance. At the 1st operation, when a complete side of the lung was removed, a mask filled with gauze was placed over the Prisoner's mouth and nose and occasionally one of the doctors from Surgery would lift up the mask and put a few drops of chloroform or ether on the gauze. On the 2nd series of operations, Tanaka doesn't know about the 1st 2 operations, but the Prisoner who was brought in for the last operation appeared to be only half conscious. Either shortly before or after the 2nd series of operations, Tanaka went to Hirako's office, whereupon he said, "I think it would be good idea to preserve a Prisoner's body for the sake of anthropology." Tanaka answered, "That sort of thing is of no use." Hirako said no more. Tanaka guesses that Hirako did have a Prisoner's body preserved. In September 1945 Hirao asked Tanaka whether it was true that a Prisoner's body had been preserved. Tanaka answered no. Hirako then said he was certain that a body of one of the Prisoners had been preserved. Tanaka saw the janitor Takata, who said that a body or perhaps bodies had been preserved, but that the injection had not been done properly and the body had spoiled so it had been cremated a long time ago. Tanaka then returned to Hirao, told him that they had been cremated. The 4th series took place between 1-10 June. Tanaka entered about 1630, saw one operation in progress at the far end of the room. On a dissecting table nearer to the entrance was another body by which Goshima and Makino were standing Tanaka first went to the table where they were operating, heard that a brain operation was going on, then, unable to see, went back to the Goshima-Makino table, asked Makino whether they were removing more parts, and Makino answered, "Yes, we are taking out some spinal nerve ganglions." Tanaka then hurried to his office, prepared Zenker and Bouin Solutions and returned to the Autopsy Training Room, got a spinal nerve ganglion from Makino and put into the Zenker Solution, then decided to take out a testicle, as the last one seemed to be diseased, put a very small piece of it into his Bouin Solution and the remainder into Makino's formaldehyde Solution. Makino then said, "Now we are going to remove the spinal cord." Tanaka then noticed 2 special students, Toshio Noda and Hideaki Baba standing between the table where they were working and the brain operation. Noda was holding an irrigator containing Meuller Solution so perhaps they removed the brain this time. Tanaka left before Makino had even turned the body over to get at the spinal cord. Tanaka doesn't imagine that he took the entire spinal cord, which is a very difficult job, but doubtless took out about one inch. After technical preparations of the parts, Tanaka about 2 weeks later hardned the parts in paraphine blocks, locked them in an office cabinet, and in February 1946 melted the paraphine, put the parts in a coffin in which were thrown parts to be burned, and Tanaka presumes that this is what happened to them. Tanaka didn't want to use parts of PWs in histology classes any longer. Makino took care of all the parts put in formaldehyde, said in late June 1945 that he was going to take half of the parts which he had taken from Prisoners to Yonago with him, leave the other half at the University. Tanaka presumes that the half left are still in the cabinet in the histology microscope room. In May 1946 Tanaka looked in this cabinet, but parts taken from Japanese bodies and from Prisoners were mixed up and Tanaka could not tell them apart. In March or April 1946 Ishizawa asked whether any of the Autopsy Section had helped the doctors from the Surgical Clinic in their operations. Tanaka answered that they only watched, and following the operations when the PWs had died, they took parts from the bodies for use in histology, but that they had not helped the Surgery Clinic doctors, that the Surgery Clinic doctors had nothing to do with the work they did, that it would have been better if they had done their work in a room other than that used for the operations, but since the Surgery Clinic had used the Autopsy Training Room they did their work there. Ishizawa answered, "Is that so? Well then that is alright; that is the way I thought it was. Hirako has told someone that I had taken part in this affair of the bodies of PWs. I wonder why Hirako has said these untrue things to others; I don't understand his reason for this. Because of this I wanted to hear the true facts from you." Ishizawa was quite irritated. In September 1945, Tanaka talked with Kaneo Kida, who had seen Hirako at Sugamo, Hirako telling him that he had been interrogated and the investigator seemed to feel that he was almost without guilt.
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